Bruce Smith 101:

Company website: Hydrow.com

Show Notes:

2:32 - If you play the piano, which I do, if like math, or you like repetitive motion, there’s something really really compelling about the rowing motion.

Within five years of arriving in Chicago, we’d built five boathouses.

4:00 - [What is the best way to get nothing done?] I have a tremendous nack for tanking things quickly, and it involves me telling them how great my idea is. I’m an expert on that. I still do it, despite having my head beat in a whole bunch of times. So, the best way to not get anything done is to not listen. It took me many, many many iterations to learn that the best way to get stuff done is to ask people questions about what they think about your idea. One or two sentences, and then ‘what do you think?’ is probably the best thing you can do.

Presenting the facts and skipping the discussion is probably the worst way to get anything done.

11:10 - I think that being a founder definitely requires some element of delusion and grandiosity. If you don’t have that, if you don’t believe on some level that you’re right about something, then you absolutely cannot be a founder. It’s just extremely stressful. You have to be willing to jump off a cliff without any kind of net. If there was a net there, than 18 people would’ve already jumped. So you really have to believe in something. To me, that’s the most valuable thing. And the people I like being around are people who believe in something to that degree. People that are actually willing to go to the edge.

There’s an upside and a downside. If you’re crazy enough to believe in something that, that often means that you do not see reality very well. I think that really great founders are people who can survive that cognitive dissonance between believing something that is not there yet and has no evidence, so they have faith in their ability to see something that other people can’t see. And then also the ability to take in the reality of the situation and understand that there are real gaps that you have to explain to people and walk them through. And be able to see the gaps in your own idea and your own faith. It’s a crazy tension.

15:52 - Joseph Conrad talked about The Work. Sailing a ship across the ocean is incredibly tedious, and likened it to a sewing machine, just keep working on the machine.

16:46 - That’s one of the things about success - you have the euphoria, you have the terror. But you also have to be able to grind. And rowers grind.

18:56 - Rowing brings people together. There’s really good brain science that shows that people who do things together, like synchronous motion, build trust.

19:35 - The more time you spend with your screen, the more time you spend isolated, the worse you feel. What’s the best thing that I could do as a human being to help other human beings feel better about themselves? That was the motivation for the company. If someone could tell me something else that would build more trust.

21:09 - I think a lot about the model of the tragedy of the commons. How do you get people to make decisions that are not in their personal best interest in the short run, but are in everybody’s - including their own - best interest in the long run? What I see developing in society is this horrible nexus of concerns, where the tragedy of the commons is actually coming to hit us in our daily lives, so we’re not able to make decisions in favor of the environment. We’re not able to make decisions in favor of public education. I think it’s because people feel more alienated and more separate from their fellow human beings. We have to do something.

I think it’s not just about the activity of the mind. It’s the mind-body connection.

25:41 - There are three kinds of competition: positive-sum, equal-sum, and negative-sum competition. In one kind of analysis, you could say that football or hockey or lacrosse are negative-sum competitions. Two teams enter the field - the only way for us to determine a winner is for one team to make the other team lose, and the team that wins has to physically hurt themselves to take that win.

With a positive-sum sport like rowing, or track and field, or swimming, you can put as many teams as you want on the field. In rowing, there are six lanes, so in the Olympics six teams go down the field. All six of those crews can have a personal record in the final race. One person still wins, but everyone has come to the table and may have produced their personal record. Everyone leaves with a better record.

That’s the kind of competition that we want to foster. Where people understand competition not as something that is negative and destructive, that involves taking something away from the other person or group, but something that lifts everybody up. By everybody bringing their best effort to the table, everybody gets better.

That was the competitive model before two world wars - rowing used to be the most popular sport in the United States. Tens of thousands of people would watch rowing races.

31:26 - This is really four different companies - the software, the hardware, the content, and the marketing, all have pretty different agendas and would like to spend our money differently. But it’s also a great moment for creativity. It is unbelievably satisfying to have all these facets of human life reflected in one place. We all come together and argue all day long in order to get to the end goal.

38:20 - I haven’t raised a single penny from a cold call. And I haven’t hired anybody without being introduced to them through an acquaintance for a friend. I call it the Quality Mafia. You find one really great person, and hold onto them like Grim Death, and give them whatever they need to come with you on your journey. And once you find that one great person, then they know about 20 or 30 really great people. And so you put out the call to those 20 or 30 people - “You need X? Oh, I know someone who used to do that.” And you keep being honest and open with people.

42:10 - Fast, Cheap, and Good. Pick two. We chose Fast and Good.

42:58 [On Workflow] - I use email. I star emails that need responses, and my goal is to keep the starred list around 10.

I have a huge amount of respect for work that happens face to face. If you’re working face to face with your direct reports, things go a lot better. I don’t know how that scales, but I think we can handle it for this type of company, we don’t anticipate growing beyond a few hundred people.

We use Slack internally, because that’s fun. I hate powerpoints, we only use them when absolutely necessary. The power of a clear, well-constructed sentence clarifies everyone’s thinking and ensures communication is rock solid.

I draw clear distinctions between kinds of meetings. There are Decision Meetings, and those should never take more than half an hour. If it’s more than half an hour, then you missed the point of the meeting. There’s not enough information, you’re chasing your tail, and you should not have that meeting.

If you don’t know what kind of decision you’re trying to make, you need a different kind of meeting. I call those Making Meetings. It’s not my idea. Basically, an hour is a minimum, and 2.5 to 3 hours if you’re mapping stuff out. Those are different things. If you confuse these two kinds of meetings, you waste everyone’s time.

I’m very skeptical of making very good decisions. Trying to make a decision is better than trying to make a really good decision.

48:54 [Advice on starting a company] Start early, do it often. It’s really really fun. Don’t try to make money, do something you believe in. The money part of it is so beyond irrelevant if you’re trying to effect some kind of positive change in the world. Then, once you get that straight, money will flow from an idea. If you don’t have a good idea, you won’t get any money, so don’t worry. Put emphasis on values and live those values.

That said, I love making money. Money is time, and money is freedom. It’s not like it’s not a goal, it’s a secondary goal. First goal: value. Second goal: money.

52:15 - I think a lot about Dostoevsky, and the University of Chicago, and people who were suffering after the war. Suffering a lot. If you work at the University of Chicago, you are surrounded by this violent, poor neighborhood. And yet, they produce the greatest number of Nobel Prize winners. You’re Fyodor Dostoevsky, and you can’t write what you want, but you create the greatest novels of all time, because you’re under this extreme pressure. Those are just two anecdotes and I have no idea if they hold over a broader spectrum. But it seems to me that creativity comes out of some level of discomfort. Cognitive dissonance, pain, and something that happens in peoples’ lives that produces creativity.

55:15 [On living a full life] - I will be completely didactic on this. If you want to be a complete human being, there are two things that you have to do. You have to read John Milton’s Paradise Lost, and a short biography of John Milton.

Then, you must read Anna Karenina. I read it every year. It is a complete compendium to all intellectual responses, human responses, emotional responses, to the existential challenges that we face as human beings. It’s a bit like the Bible - it is a complete story. It catalogues how you can respond to life.

Books Discussed in the show:

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Show Notes:

Quantified Self - wikipedia

Quantified Self (Official Site)

Ernesto Ramirez (Twitter)

Alex’s pick: http://newbooksnetwork.com - Great way to listen to authors talk about new books, new podcasts regularly on a wide variety of subjects.

Matt’s pick: The Ice Balloon by Alec Wilkinson

6:24 - Alex: Quantified Self is interesting for those who may want to use data for self-improvement.

7:35 - Ernesto on QS: The act of collecting information - data - about your individuality, about yourself, whether that’s your health, your activity, your mood, all the things that make up who you are in the world.

People have been doing this forever. Benjamin Franklin’s 13 Virtues is just one example. But I think why this has come to the fore recently over the last five or six years is the increasing ease of collection, and an increasing ease of analysis. This is why there is a thing called Quantified Self.

10:50 - The technology is really what’s driving this forward - there are more and more technologies that are allowing us to gather information about ourselves that a) we were never able to gather before and b) we’re able to gather it much more easily.

11:33 - As these technological changes have come along, there’s been an increasing focus in the individuality of human nature and that - what works for me, may not work for you.

13:15 - The Human Genome Project

14:51 - What we’ve found is that individual stories actually can inspire lots of other people.

17:21 - Rescuetime - an app for time management. Lift - an app for hitting your daily goals.

19:51 - I collect data in the hope that I can use it in the future to help me answer questions I may have. It can help you develop a rich autobiographical narrative as this data is continually collected.

25:23 - Ernesto’s recommendations to start QS in your life:

Make sure the system you choose to record this data lets you access the data it collects
Start with simple things - simple data visualizations can tell you great stories. Start with scatterplots.
Share your observations with others - you’ll come up with new ways to look at this information

29:50 - Alex: What I like is that in this data, in these visualizations - there’s always a story embedded in that, as to why things happened the way they did.

31:42 - Right now, it’s all about data aggregation, about pulling it all together. But there are a few people working on how to create a subjective context that you need to have to make those more datasets more understood, more useful.

33:01 - Basis Watch that tracks exercise and sleeping in particular.

34:56 - Different companies take different approaches - Jawbone is trying to create automatic insights into your data that they can push to you in the form of simple correlations. Or Basis, which is more focused on helping you develop a stronger habits.

40:10 - Gary Wolf, co-founder of Quantified Self: Ted Talk

42:55 - What would be great would be to see a highly interactive computer system with these data systems that humans could work with, to really start to make this very useful.

44:18 - What people do most often with this technology is actually use it to share their experiences.

46:47 - We hear this all the time: ‘we just want people to donate all their data to us so we could create something interesting.’ What I think is more interesting would be to involve people in the discovery of data itself. Once you have this data, how can you feed back this information to the users who are generating it so it can be more useful?

47:58 - We know that the act of data collection in itself is a mechanism to change their behavior. You give someone a pedometer, they’re going to take more steps, it happens time and time again.

49:28 - I think that’s what it all comes down to - how can people understand and tell the story of their life? In some cases people want to improve, and sometimes people just want to understand, and some people just want to share what’s going on.